Gathering at Macktown retrospective
We had a wonderful weekend. After receiving word that my mother was out of emergency surgery for her second heart attack, we headed to camp. Hey, mom told us to go! We were able to get set up in a soft drizzle with out any problems or issues. The new tent was a nice and easy set up for us. I'm really glad we decided to get it.
I did take some a lot of ribbing over the facial hair, not all the comments were as hateful on the ones left on my previous post. Some of you have a mean streak! Actually none of the comments bothered me, I figured that was going to happen. I just rolled with them.
The weather started off kind of crappy. Thursday when we set up it was drizzling a little with the occasional rain. Friday we had on and off rain through out the day. Sometime around 3:00 pm the weather started to get nasty. We had a severe thunderstorm blow through just south of us and the wind really started to pick up. At one point the rain was coming at us vertically. With winds gusting up to 30 mph we had some serious issues. Ktreva, the boys and I were standing under our friend Smokepoles 16 foot fly and the rain was coming so hard that my glasses were covered in rain as I stood at the other end.
Some of the campers that showed up late had to set up in the pouring rain. The wind never really died down all night. It blew hard and heavy all night long, which of course meant a lot of people didn't get much sleep. I have a hard time sleeping in high winds situation because I'm listening for ripping canvas and snapping poles. I know of at least 4 people that lost canvas that night.
Saturday morning a lot of campers just packed up in left, including some of the people that set up in the rain. We lost about 50% Saturday morning before the event even started. There was one well known individual trader going around telling people that the wind was going to get worse and we were going to get snow that night. A lot of people just took him at his word and started packing up. The booshway, event committee and staff kept telling people they were not canceling the event and encouraged people to stay.
Now I have a lot of re-enactors, living historians, etc that read this blog, so I'm not going to mention any individuals specifically, but I will say this. The bug out was really caused by one group of re-enactors that have absolutely nothing to do with the running of this event. I was surprised by the groups that did pull out.
Saturday after the event closed, even more people packed up and left. When we had the camp meeting I had been into my cups so when the topic of how to handle the situation in the future came up, I just started talking. I told them that I felt that anyone that left early with out a legitimate reason should not be invited back next year. I know a couple left because their ridge poles snapped and they couldn't fix it or their canvas was destroyed. Let them come back because they had a legitimate excuse for leaving. Most of the people still there agreed with me. Someone brought up that they needed those camps to demonstrate. I pointed out they weren't there anyways.
Since none of my friends in camp tackled me in the middle of the meeting I just kept shooting off my opinion. I did learn a valuable lesson this weekend. Never go to camp meetings half drunk. Definitely don't drink during the meeting. They are not asking me to be on the committee for this event. Yea, I told them no and that I didn't think it would be a good idea for me to join. I'd just be one more problem they had. Could you imagine my loud, opinionated self in a committee for something that I don't get paid to do? Yea, there's not enough sensitivity classes in the world to keep me from spouting off at every bad idea. I'm not a committee kind of guy.
The kicker to this whole thing is that the weather on Saturday was windy up until about 7:00 PM. Then it was just nice. We had no more high winds, no more rain. Sunday it was sunny and beautiful. All these people that packed up and left early, wasted their time. They missed a beautiful weekend.
1
You don't have to say who it was who WUSSED because it does not matter. Who ever left, be they ONW or otherwise, are nothing but fair weather campers. The way I see it, If you have a problem camping in the rain at these type of events then maybe they should find a different hobby. And I Know that at times there are certin circumstances to every case, But no trader ought to have any say as to to weather an event should be canceled. And you know that I agree with your comments about who should be invited the next time despite the fact that you may have been in your cups. These event committes need to stop worrying about quanity and worry more about quality. Before they end up not having an event at all. Well I guess I've stretched this noose far enogh.
Signed
If you cant' run with the big dog's stay under the porch and lick yourself.
Wil
Posted by: wil at April 29, 2008 10:16 AM (Ahwzy)
2
why thanks guys.. i am a commettie member and i do agree with all that was said here. i am surprised that some of the ones who left took someones word and didnt talk to the booshway or myself. and as for inviting them back.. well i am all for quality and not quanity myself. i will say though anyone who talked to us, or who left due to dammage will be invited back, anyone else may need to re jury as this is a quality event and we will not continue to allow people to break the rules or make there own, if they think they can do better i would like to see them do it. and i would also like to again say.. it was a great event even if we lost alot of the camp. to everyone who stayed ,, you are all awsome.. to those who didnt.. well you missed a hell of a great party.. jane
Posted by: jane at April 30, 2008 04:31 PM (/M9WP)
3
Hey y'all!
I'm the trapper that was camped in front of you in the little lean-to. I not only remember you at the camp-meeting, I remember you hollerin' at yer kid late at night! Thanks again for the use of yer shovel! I was curious when I got to work Monday, so I went to the US Weather Bureau website to check their records for the weekend. Thursday night we got .55 inches of rain and Friday 1.34. It seemed like more. But you're way off on the wind speeds. It averaged 30-40 MPH on Friday and Saturday with gusts 50-70 MPH. That's why those hooters blew over- they ain't designed for that kind of wind. I don't know why so many people left, some were open about it and some just disappeared. Kinda like the snow I guess. People overreacted to some bad weather, but it wasn't that bad. Personally, I didn't buy a Hudson's Bay Blanket and make a capote out of it to wear in August, it's for bad weather. I'm glad I went and I'm proud I stayed- Hoorah fer the mountains! See you next year, same Mack time, same Mack date, and same Mack place!
Bill
Posted by: Bill Anderson at April 30, 2008 05:05 PM (EyWcv)
4
Thanks to both of you for stopping by.
I may be off on the wind speeds, I was just going off of what was predicted. I didn't really care that much to look it up as it really wasn't that bad. I've survived much worse.
Posted by: Contagion at April 30, 2008 05:54 PM (mLmOT)
More to fan the flames.
I was sirfing around the net and I stumbled across this clip about an "Art Show" and the University of Maine at Farmington's Student Center. Now, I think the clip would have been better with out the music, you might be able to hear what is being said better. I know it's not my usual lighter side to Saturday's, but I wanted to share this.
Besides the intentional disregard of the Flag, the disrespect of a War Vetern and the asinine comments by the professor/administrator about it being just a piece of cloth, the thing that really gets me is the kids standing on the flags with signs on their backs. Unfortunately the film quality isn't the greatest, but I do believe one said, "Future Teacher".
Yep, that explains why the future of America is screwed.
Penny: There is a wrong and a right side to the story. Travis and crew were wrong for breaking into the house. I'm sorry, they were. I don't care how anyone tries to sugar coat that fact. He ought to have known that it was illegal. Two wrongs don't make a right, but killing someone to defend life, limb or property is not wrong.
A Friend: I never said Travis pointed a gun at anyone, just that he had a gun. But to be honest gun or not if it had been my house and he was in there, you're damn right I would have shot him. And no, I would not have "aimed to maim". I'm ex-law enforcement and I'm sorry, I know that tactic more often than not doesn't work.
I have a son that is with in months of Travis' age. And you know what, I can keep him away from friends I don't want him hanging out with. I have also instilled in him a serious sense of right and wrong. I may have my issues with him, but to this point the only criminal activity he's been involved in was damage to my property.
Travis wasn't murdered. He was killed while committing a felony in self defense. God gave man a brain and free will. Whether or not Travis and his friends used the first is questionable, but they definitely used the second.
Maybe, just maybe in this society of pass the blame if people would wake up and take responsibility for their own actions our country would straighten things up. But no, we are a victim society. Every time someone does something wrong, or every time something bad happens to someone it's somebody elseÂ’s fault.
Travis made a decision. His decision was bad. As a result of that bad decision HE GOT HIMSELF KILLED. IE Travis killed himself. Don't blame anyone but Travis for the death. It's not being filled with hate, it's not being cold hearted, it's not being an asshole, it's just the way it is.
I thought my response, due to length, really demanded it's own post.
I know the family and friends are grieving. I feel for them and their loss. It is a tragedy, but this is something that Travis brought upon himself.
"Moore drove Castle and the other two teens to what they thought was an unoccupied house in Stillman Valley to steal weapons, Ogle County Sheriff Gregory Beitel said Thursday.
Moore knew that there were firearms in the house; and Moore knew that the homeownder was hospitalized. He did not know that another person was staying overnight in the house, "Beitel said. Beitel said Moore was acquainted witht he family that owned the house. "
AND
"Other items taken from the house were found in Castle's jean pockets."
The article also states that the firearm that Travis was holding came from the house and that none of the individuals involved brought a firearm with them.
Again, to me it doesn't matter. Travis being in the house itself was room for self-defense in my eyes. The fact he was holding a gun just makes it more of a legally viable defense if the state decides to charge the House guest, which at this point doesn't appear they are going to.
1
Wow Penny really does her head in the sand. I bet I can tell you her view of the GWOT, which political party she belongs to and who she voted for in primaries.
Kumbaya singing, hopey, changey, the US is to blame for all evils as well as guns fucking hippy.
Posted by: Quality Weenie at April 11, 2008 08:24 AM (grH7t)
2
QW, Penny doesn't have her head in the sand... she's got her heart in this mess. It's got to be rough reading this stuff about a family member.
Penny really is one of the good ones.
Posted by: That 1 Guy at April 11, 2008 10:24 AM (irTdd)
3
T1G is someone using your ID?
Have you actually read her comment?
My thoughts are if you can dish it out better be prepared to receive the same in return.
Posted by: Quality Weenie at April 11, 2008 11:10 AM (grH7t)
4
Nobody's swiped my ID. At least not here. And yes, I did read her comment. I didn't see anything that mentioned anything about being a "Kumbaya singing, hopey, changey, the US is to blame for all evils as well as guns fucking hippy."
What I did see was someone who had a nephew die, and then gets to read the comments of those who know nothing about Travis or any of the others. You've got to admit, some of them look pretty damn hateful. I can't blame her for being upset. Travis may have done wrong, but for fu$k's sake, his corpse doesn't need to be dragged through a gauntlet of derision and humiliation as his family is forced to look on in silence.
Posted by: That 1 Guy at April 11, 2008 11:33 AM (irTdd)
5
T1G, I don't see in any of the posts or comments here anyone humiliating the boy.
People are just stating facts.
And for Penny to come on here and tell us that we are godless, idiots, full of hatred, unloved and full of evil is just wrong.
She said we don't know either party so we have no right to side with either party. Well she does not know us. We read all the articles and made a judgement that the kid was in the complete wrong and the guy how shot him deserves no penalty yet Penny rages on us for our opinions.
If she is so full of sorrow why is she coming on sites spewing her opinions and condemming everyone? To me it looks like she was looking for a confrontation and then when she got what she was looking for it gave her an excuse to tell everyone how immoral everyone else is.
Posted by: Quality Weenie at April 11, 2008 11:50 AM (grH7t)
6
My bad, QW. "Hate filled" is not quite the correct term to use. My point in using it, though, was that some of them were pretty cold, and to an aunt who loved her nephew, and is hurting, they could very well seem hate filled.
I probably misread the whole thing, but I got the impression that she was disgusted with folks that know nothing of either party, sitting back and passing judgement... either way. She knows the homeowner, and I'm pretty sure she knows the house sitter. She's not condemned them.
Posted by: That 1 Guy at April 11, 2008 12:33 PM (irTdd)
7
I don't know any of the parties involved. What I do know is this: if someone broke into a place where I was staying, I would feel threatened. Period. Is this something difficult to comprehend? Hell, threatened is pretty mild - I'd be scared out of my socks.
It doesn't matter the age or the type of person or what they might be like in "real life" when not committing a felony. It's not like we're gonna have a chance to sit down to tea and chat a while. I'm going to have a few SECONDS in the dark when I'm scared spitless, to assess the situation that might end up getting me maimed or killed. There is no slo-mo to give us time to think of all the possibilities. People always seem to forget this - we don't live "on television" with scripts to make it all easy.
An intruder, having a gun in hand, negates every other physical characteristic - call it the great equalizer - just as dangerous in the hands of a young teen as in the hands of a hulking brute.
If in that case I have a gun handy, I'm going to pick it up in order to defend myself. If I see a person with a gun who does not belong in that house... I'm not going to wait until he or she shoots first. I'm not going to wonder - did he get the gun here or did he bring it? I'm not going to wonder if it's loaded or not - I will assume it is. I'm not going to wonder if he or she will shoot or not - I will assume they will.
I may shout a warning, but I want to be the one standing and unhurt when all is done. I know that makes me the veriest blood thirsty person on the face of the earth - but so it is. I also think it's a pretty clear and unemotional overview of what happens during a highly tense emotion packed confrontation.
In the end one person walked away another didn't. The person walking away incurs no blame. Age has nothing to do with this conclusion.
Posted by: Teresa at April 11, 2008 03:52 PM (rVIv9)
8
The entire situation is unfortunate and its one that is going to effect both families into potentially the next generation. Its generation altering for a family... both families.
I have a son that is just one year younger. Its something you think you don't have to lecture your kids on, but really... I guess it is. You instill what you can, you do the best, but when they are on their own with their buddies, it is free will as you said, and you just hope that nobody gets a dumb idea that the group decides to act upon. Good people do stupid things. So I will add this to the list of potential crazy ideas to not follow with ones buddies.
Really what I will lecture on probably is the right to defend one's home... so he clearly understands that people can and will and should defend their homes.
9
I think that all of you are being very unreasonable if it was your kid that had gotten shot you no damn well you would not want to believe that it was their fault you would love your kid and be very heartbroken. I didn't no travis but nieghther did any of you. I know a very good kid that started getting hung up in all this shit thats going on in this world and he didnt want to do the things he did but he had been threatened. How do you think the parents or family memebers feel reading your nasty comments. Have a heart he made a mistake and he payed for it with his life so drop it.
Posted by: Karly at April 14, 2008 07:07 AM (Q5WxB)
10
Thank you Karly, everybody on here just hears what they want to here and deletes anything saying that Travis was not a " thug" or "punk"
Travis was a good kid, and it is a horrible thing that he is gone, yea he made a bad decision and yes he did pay for it, he lost his life. BUt do these people have anything to say but talk bad abou ta KID they don't even know.
and i know people can state their own opinions, but when you don't know someone and you are judging them it makes it that much worse.
Breaks my heart to have to believe that so many people can talk about a young boy they didnt know. and when someone says no he wasn't a "punk" they just go on this "punk travis"
its hard on the family, not even that its on here becuase we choose to read this, but when people go places just becuase htey know that is where our family lies ot go just to talk about glad they are that he got shot, thats what hurts.
Posted by: Jacki at April 14, 2008 07:08 AM (Q5WxB)
11
I'm not sure where the "deletes comments" part comes from, as I rarely delete any comments that are not spam.
Travis may have been a good kid, but at some point he took a turn for the worse. Be it he made a really bad decision to commit a class X felony or he was hanging with kids that aren't so good. If the later is true, it still a bad decision.
I'm curious as to were the "He had been threatened" came from. I haven't seen anything that states he was coerced in any way from any of the others involved. Obviously Travis didn't say that. I'm not saying that isn't true, I just haven't seen anything that collaborates that statement.
Posted by: Contagion at April 14, 2008 07:16 AM (Q5WxB)
12
some of the boys besides the driver had told the family.
and i didnt mean that you were deleting the commments just in other places sorry for the confusion.
Posted by: jacki at April 19, 2008 09:45 AM (y/m3Y)
Update in Stillman Valley Shooting.
There was a news conference today regarding the Stillman Valley home invasion where Travis Castle was killed. While searching for information on what was said, I found this following video clip:
I know this video was prior to them catching the other boys that were involved, but I wanted to share it anyway. The father is blaming the boys involved and not the yet to officially be identified House Guest. I applaud the father for putting the blame in the right general direction. Travis is still part of the blame, but there appears to be outside influence.
When I get the info on the news conference today, I'll share that with you all as well.
1
I think that all of you are being very unreasonable if it was your kid that had gotten shot you no damn well you would not want to believe that it was their fault you would love your kid and be very heartbroken. I didn't no travis but nieghther did any of you. I know a very good kid that started getting hung up in all this shit thats going on in this world and he didnt want to do the things he did but he had been threatened. How do you think the parents or family memebers feel reading your nasty comments. Have a heart he made a mistake and he payed for it with his life so drop it.
Posted by: Karly at April 12, 2008 08:08 PM (dzV7b)
2
Thank you Karly, everybody on here just hears what they want to here and deletes anything saying that Travis was not a " thug" or "punk"
Travis was a good kid, and it is a horrible thing that he is gone, yea he made a bad decision and yes he did pay for it, he lost his life. BUt do these people have anything to say but talk bad abou ta KID they don't even know.
and i know people can state their own opinions, but when you don't know someone and you are judging them it makes it that much worse.
Breaks my heart to have to believe that so many people can talk about a young boy they didnt know. and when someone says no he wasn't a "punk" they just go on this "punk travis"
its hard on the family, not even that its on here becuase we choose to read this, but when people go places just becuase htey know that is where our family lies ot go just to talk about glad they are that he got shot, thats what hurts.
Posted by: jacki at April 14, 2008 01:54 AM (y/m3Y)
3
Ladies, I've sent you both e-mails regarding the above comments. Nothing has been deleted, I don't believe in deleting comments as long as the person includes a valid e-mail address in it or if the comment has nothing to do with the discussion.
There are three posts on here regarding this incident and both of your comments are on the wrong post. Even though you didn't respond to my e-mails to make sure they received the proper attention I feel the deserve I've copied them to the most active threads.
Posted by: Contagion at April 14, 2008 07:00 AM (Q5WxB)
Tragedy in Stillman Valley. UPDATED!.
When I returned from my trip on Sunday I heard a news story about a 14 year old boy being killed during a home invasion in Stillman Valley. The kid was breaking into the house and a house guest who was house sitting for the owner that was in an accident a couple of days prior shot the kid. (Here are news stories about it from local news sources: Rockford Register Star, WREX, WIFR, WTVO). Tammi of Tammi's World has a post up about her reaction as she lives in the community shattered by this incident.
When I first heard this story, I told Ktreva I thought I knew the home owner from down at Fritz's. It turns out I was right, I had met him a couple of times when I was down there hanging out with T1G.
Today this was the big talk on the radio and news. I don't just mean the talk radio circuit either. The music stations where also discussing it. The big news today was that they announced the name of the 14 year old boy who was shot, Travis Castle.
This brought up a lot of different discussions, but the one that pissed me off was when people would say that the house guest should be arrested and sent to jail for killing the 14 year old boy. You know what, bullocks to that! The house guest, who was in the house legally heard someone breaking in, grabbed a firearm and chose to defend himself and his friends property. When he saw the 14 year old punk holding a weapon he shot him. This is a clear cut case of self defense if I ever heard one.
Now before I go any further I do want to give my condolences to the boy's mother and father. It's tough to lose a child. Yet, he shouldn't have been in the house. I don't know if this is the first time Travis got in trouble or if he had already started down the path to be a career criminal. Either way he chose the wrong day and the wrong house to break into. The kid brought it upon himself.
If anyone deserves to go to jail for Travis' death it's the two partners he had. I don't know if the kids are being protected, but I find it hard to believe that no one knows who Travis was hanging out with that night. If I was Travis' parents I'd be out looking for the two idiots, that along with Travis, decided to break into the house.
The police have not identified the house guest yet, so I'm not sure if I know the individual or not, but I really hope the State's attorney decides that he was acting with in his rights. If they don't I know I'll be donating to his defense fund.
The other thing that pissed me off about this is the number of people blaming the guns. "If guns were illegal, none of this would have happened. They wouldn't have broken into the house and no one would have gotten shot." Okay, were as if we lived in a world there were no firearms, that doesn't mean Travis would have been beaten to death with a baseball bat. The only way this whole thing could have been completely prevented would be if Travis and his friends didn't break into the house. The responsibility for the death lies solely at their feet.
UPDATE: (04/12/0
I created a new post based on my comment below. Also, here is an update in the RRSTAR on the story about the Three others involved and more details. It appears they specifically went there to steal firearms.
1
We had an incident near here where a man pried the vent hood off the roof of a house, climbed into the attic and fell through the ceiling into the house in the middle of the night.
The home owner grabbed his gun, went to investigate, found the stranger in his home, and ordered him to leave. Several times. He shouted so loud, the neighbors woke up and heard.
The stranger, while unarmed, did not leave. He wandered down the hallway. And when he entered the bedroom of the home owner's daughter, the home owner shot him.
In the back.
But not dead.
So later, the stranger was able to file suit for pain and suffering.
Fortunately, the judge laughed him out of court.
The only people who disagree with the judge are friends and family of the stranger.
Everyone else wishes the home owner had aimed a little better.
Posted by: Roses at April 08, 2008 07:36 PM (bzwf1)
2
It's unfortunate that this had to happen. The blame lies solely at the feet of the children. At that age the DO know what they are doing but are still dumb enough to ignore the consequences. Of course the parents are NOT going to fess up to their child's wrong doings but will blame everything from the guns to the man staying there.
I feel the for the man in the house. It's unimaginable what he will go through the rest of his life.
Posted by: Navy CPO at April 08, 2008 09:02 PM (D6gq/)
3
I feel bad for the kids parents, but I feel worse for the guy that shot him. I can't imagine what he must be going through right now, even though the kid had it coming - breaking and entering? With a weapon? Yeah, sad as it is, he had it coming.
4
"But CastleÂ’s parents expressed doubt about the self-defense argument.
“He was in the wrong place at the wrong time,” his mother said."
--------------------------------------------------
I just read that in the Rockford Register Star.
Doubts about the self-defense argument? Are they STONED!? Your precious little boy pointed a RIFLE AT ANOTHER HUMAN BEING! And got his chest perforated for it!
And "he was in the wrong place at the wrong time"?! Who put him in that "wrong place"? HE DID! Willingly and knowingly!! It's not like he was eating in the local diner when a truck crashes through the window and kills him... He was willingly breaking and entering into another's home, and he pointed a gun at the resident! It wasn't an accident, it was a FELONY! If the parents want to blame somebody, they can blame their son (for starters) and they can blame THEMSELVES for letting their son hang out with people they suspected already where bad influences, but no they'll blame the eeevil guns, and the citizen that used one to defend himself.
Bastards just piss me off...
5
The Castle Doctrine under Missouri Law defends the homeowner in cases just like this.
Under that Doctrine you have the right to protectyour home, property or vehicle.
Shame Illinois is still in the dark ages.
Posted by: BloodSpite at April 09, 2008 11:34 AM (dl14p)
6
"The only way this whole thing could have been completely prevented would be if Travis and his friends didn't break into the house. The responsibility for the death lies solely at their feet."
So very true. And I feel bad for the guy who shot him - what a thing to have to live with even though he was in the right.
Posted by: Richmond at April 09, 2008 02:35 PM (VbTiz)
7
Nice.
Nice how the older boys let the youngest hold their shotgun.
I hope there was at least one more friend who decided not to join the rest that night.
One kid with a brain.
Posted by: Roses at April 10, 2008 09:37 AM (jCDHV)
8
Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself. It is a shame for the parents; however, they may have been saved a lifetime of misery. It is pretty obvious the kid was headed down a nasty road in life and usually its the parents who bear the brunt of the child's bad choices in life. It may sound bad, but maybe better dead now than stuck in prison or dead in the gutter later?
9
Hi Gang...
I blogged about this:
http://chucksplace.wordpress.com/2008/04/08/sorry-dont-have-no-pity-for-nobody-this-stupid/
and Yes, I do feel that way...
Punk kid had it coming.
-Chuck
10
In Florida this would be open and shut. Easy case... Our Governor is a member of the NRA and today they just passed a law stating we are allowed to have guns in our cars at work, as long as we have a concealed weapons permit, unless of course you work at a school and then you can't.
People can say what they want about Florida, but you can protect yourself here and nobody questions.
I feel for the guy who shot the kid. He was defending himself, but he will forever remember the day he shot a 14 year old kid, even if the kid was guilty as hell.
11
the saddest thing of all of this is that all of you self righteous, non God fearing idiots feel there is a right or wrong side to this. that you with out knowning either party want to side with, defend or condemn. your lives are pitiful. i hope sometime in your pointless future you learn to love and cherish life, and rid yourselves of your hatred. those of you who have written the "bad road" Travis would have been on, you are on a worse road because you are the evil that infests this world. There are two broken families here, and there are always two sides, but sorrow should be left to be sorrow, and stupidity should be silenced.
Posted by: penny isham at April 10, 2008 07:57 PM (3tfsp)
12
First of all, the story that was given to this person is incorrect. Travis didn't point a gun at anybody! He may of had a weapon in his hand but he dropped it as soon as he say the homeowner. And did I mention that the lights were on. So, that means the homeowner saw this and stll decided to pull the trigger..in the head and in the chest. So pretty muvh shoot to kill. Now, I agree that he shouldn't have been doing what he was doing but the homeowner didn't have to kill him. I am a very close firend of the cousin of Travis and I had met him once before and he didn't seem like a bad kid at all. And his parents loved him dearly. And how can you say the parents shouldn't have let him hang out with those kids....have you tried telling your kids not to hang out with somebody...but it didn't work to well.Unless your over protective and lock them in the house forever. YOu people have no heart. A 14 year old just basically got murdered and you think he deserved it. OH and by the way the police wont the the family kinow anything about the autopsey or about the police repoets....nice keeping the family in the dark. Havent they been through enough!
Posted by: A friend at April 10, 2008 07:58 PM (cgBwc)
13
Dear, "A Friend",
While I'm sorry for the Travis's family for the unbelievable loss that they are experiencing. Let's call a spade a spade.
First, "He may of had a weapon in his hand but he dropped it as soon as he say the homeowner.", um were you there? Did you witness firsthand what took place in that house? If so, then you need to be talking to the police and explaining your actions or lack thereof.
Second, "Now, I agree that he shouldn't have been doing what he was doing but the homeowner didn't have to kill him." Um, that's where you're wrong. See kids today are coddled WAY too much. There are fewer parents that know by drawing a hard line in the sand and setting expectations and consequences, is the only way you raise a good person. Travis should not have even had the THOUGHT of entering someone else's home for the purpose of seeing what they could get. There was no point to this and this dumb kid brought about his own death as a result. He made the choice to go. He made the choice to break into a home. He made the choice to pick up a weapon. He made the choice to die.
The guest of the home owner had no way of knowing what that kid was going to do. Drop the gun and run like hell or start shooting. He took appropriate actions for the situation.
Now, when you're done singing kumbaya by the firepit with your other tree-hugging hippie friends, try pulling your head out of your arse and seeing what the world has been turned into because kids today and generation before are being raised to think they have a RIGHT to whatever what they want, without working for it.
Again, I feel badly that Travis' parents have lost a son. But their son was doing something ILLEGAL as well as stupid and paid a high price for being an idiot. And the houseguest, who should not face any charges whatsoever, will have to live with the fact that he had to take a persons life.
Nobody won in this instance. Hopefully Travis' other stupid friends will learn a lesson from this. Doubtful, but dare to dream.
Posted by: Lee Ann at April 11, 2008 07:22 AM (In0yv)
14
Penny: There is a wrong and a right side to the story. Travis and crew were wrong for breaking into the house. I'm sorry, they were. I don't care how anyone tries to sugar coat that fact. He ought to have known that it was illegal. Two wrongs don't make a right, but killing someone to defend life, limb or property is not wrong.
A Friend: I never said Travis pointed a gun at anyone, just that he had a gun. But to be honest gun or not if it had been my house and he was in there, you're damn right I would have shot him. And no, I would not have "aimed to maim". I'm ex-law enforcement and I'm sorry, I know that tactic more often than not doesn't work.
I have a son that is with in months of Travis' age. And you know what, I can keep him away from friends I don't want him hanging out with. I have also instilled in him a serious sense of right and wrong. I may have my issues with him, but to this point the only criminal activity he's been involved in was damage to my property.
Travis wasn't murdered. He was killed while committing a felony in self defense. God gave man a brain and free will. Whether or not Travis and his friends used the first is questionable, but they definitely used the second.
Maybe, just maybe in this society of pass the blame if people would wake up and take responsibility for their own actions our country would straighten things up. But no, we are a victim society. Every time someone does something wrong, or every time something bad happens to someone it's somebody elseÂ’s fault.
Travis made a decision. His decision was bad. As a result of that bad decision HE GOT HIMSELF KILLED. IE Travis killed himself. Don't blame anyone but Travis for the death. It's not being filled with hate, it's not being cold hearted, it's not being an asshole, it's just the way it is.
Posted by: Contagion at April 11, 2008 07:50 AM (Q5WxB)